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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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 Posted - 18 Sep 2010 : 2:09:05 PM
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so today i tryed to service my auto my changing the gasket, filter and oil cause it had a really bad leak. i assumed it was from the pan gasket cause the bolts were quite loose. after i changes it, i filled it back up with the amount it said in my vn manual. 11 litres. thought it was a bit much and i was right. it over filled out through the dip stick hole and then when i looked under the car therre was a nice puddle of fluid. looked like it was leaking from the engine bay but i couldnt tell for sure, becuse the amount the ran down the side of the DS tube wasnt enough to cause as big of a puddle. any ideas what this could be at all????? Im getting quite agro because i dont know if im doing something wrong or if something much worse is broken or perished.
Cheers for any help.
Adam
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 18 Sep 2010 : 3:05:37 PM
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First of all, undo your sump pan, put the oil aside, and thoroughly clean the gasket surface. Just to be sure, clean the the sump pan as well, where the gasket sits. Make sure you have no tears/damage to the gasket itself. Apply sealant to both the sump pan and the transmission body, where the gasket locates.
When you place the sump to the transmission, be very careful not to let the gasket move out of line with any of the bolt holes. If it does move, make sure it goes back so it's perfectly flat, and square with all the bolt holes.
Replace 4 bolts to hold the sump up. tighten them just enough for the gasket to contact the transmission body. Replace all the other bolts, and tighten them up likewise. Then in a "fan pattern" as if you were tensioing a cylinder head, start with a middle bolt, and tension it down to about 1 1/2 turns after seating. Go to the opposite site and do likewise, and keep alternating round to opposite sides until all are tensioned down. Check as you tension them, that there's no obvious pinching or damage to the gasket, and tighten them to be "firm;" roughly the same kind of firmness you would use to tighten a spark plug. If you go too extreme in tensioning, you can damage the gasket.
Just before you put the oil in, look for any obvious signs of leaking, including whether the end of the dipstick tube is secure. Sometimes it's this simple problem that can trip up a novice. It got me about 16 years ago and made quite a mess.
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 20 Sep 2010 : 5:50:19 PM
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| is there supposed to be a looseish hose coming from the top of the sump that goes up and down a bit latter again that doesnt connect to anything??? like a breather tube or overflow tube at all? because i think some of it might have been coming from there. and i did all those steps that were mentioned above apart from using sealant. i was under the impression that for this it wasnt required... |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 20 Sep 2010 : 8:36:43 PM
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I'm baffled about that one. There shouldn't be anything like that underneath; the only "breather" most automatics have is the dipstick tube. I mentioned the sealant "to make bloody sure" it wouldn't leak from the sump pan, which is usually the main cause of leaks.
There should be two hoses/pipes coming off the transmission; parts of thes pipes will be metal, parts of it will be rubber. They lead to the radiator, which either has the transmission cooler outside or inside the radiator. That's the only thing I can think of that might look like a breather if disturbed. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 4:01:58 PM
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ok so i have no idea whats wrong with it but in the next few days im gonna put it up on my 2 new axle stands and let it run for about 30. is there anything i should do when i do this? just run through the gears every few minutes? and this will also help me find out it my temp guage is kaput or not.
Also, the other day after still more oil leaked out as it does, i drove it up my driveway (on a hill about 25 degrees) i had it in drive but it slowly started rowling back. would this be just a side effect of the low oil or something more serious? should i be considering a new box all together? and if so is it 100% an engine out job? |
Bassist by day, VN nut by night |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 4:26:22 PM
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Do you know whether it's engine or transmission fluid? If it's engine oil, then yes, it likely is an engine out job. If it's transmission fluid, then you don't have to pull out the engine to change it, but you will need some good height clearance to get at the box. Remember to drop the oil before you drop the gearbox because a. it will weigh less and b. it won't make a mess. It sounds like the gearbox is low on oil (you will hear a kind of whirring sound when the transmission bands slip)
Once you unplug the harness, undo the transmission cooling lines and undo the rear crossmember, the only things left holding it up are the bell housing bolts to the back of the engine. They can be a bastard to get to. Use a jack to hold it before unbolting the bell housing.
If you have any mates with air ratchets, well worth using for this one. The engine can stay in, it's up to you which way you want the box in or out, as you can do either. Engine out is more work of course, but if you have other work to do (clean engine bay, fix oil leaks on sump) it might be useful. But only if you have other stuff to do, this will double the workload |
Edited by - Mechknight73 on 14 Oct 2010 4:28:35 PM |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 8:56:40 PM
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its deffinatly gearbox fluid because of i changed it just over a month ago when it went empty aswell as filter and gasket. but straight away it was leaking because i am not sure if i did it right cause it overflowed out of the dip stick hole. is it absolutly essential to run it for a bit before you do? because i didnt and i put in 11 ltrs like my manual told me to. i then loked under neath to see the leaking but couldnt tell if it was wrong the over flow or other areeas but that was over a month ago and its still leaking slowly. or not so slowly.
and to remove itm, i dont need to take out the engine? and would i be able to do the safely and easily enough with a few mates (around 18-20 yrs old cause im 18) and 2-4 car stands? |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 9:52:21 PM
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A dry fill is 11 liter's and a service fill is 4.8 liters.
If its a rubber hose located near the servo/cooler pipes , and about half a meter long its just a breather pipe.
The best thing to do is drain the all the trans fluid into a oil pan with Liter measurements.
Let it fully drain and Measure how much comes out just to make sure it's not still overfull. There is hope for not buying a new trans just yet.
They are quite strong units and can be saved by a pro automatic shop.
Have a look at your filter and check if OK , Then seal the pan again with a new gasket and add about 3 to 3.5 liters of fluid via the dipstick tube.
Bring the car up to operating temp in park , checking and slowly adjusting the fluid level to the HOT Full Mark.
Go for a quick spin see how it goes. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 11:08:18 PM
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| If you need to get the gearbox out, with a couple of mates and a trolley jack, you can do it safely. As one slowly lowers the jack, the rest of you balance it. Although hopefully it'll be unnecessary to remove it. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 01 Nov 2010 : 8:04:08 PM
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ok so i finally got aarouhd to taking a proper look under my precious and had it running and all that jazz... i first off gave a quick look then wiped over everything to remove all the grease and old oil from the sump pan and everywhere i could see with crap on it. then gave it a bit of a run with a piece of cardboard under it, got it to temp and went through all the gears. found 2 small leaks... although there probably bigger that they showed at first glance. first one is from the back of the box near the driveshaft where i think a seal is or was...
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx68/wolf9215/Car%20Photos/gearbox2.jpg
The 2nd leak i found was at the power steering rack which i didnt expect at all... i checked the fluid in the resevoir and sure enough its running preety low as well... this is another pic of the trouble spot...
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx68/wolf9215/Car%20Photos/Steeringrack2.jpg
sorry for running my mouth off i do it sometimes.
anyway what would be the easiest was to fix these 2 leaks? are they both relativly easy or would i need new parts or something from the wreckers???
Cheers
(Ps both photos are probably not from a vn or even a holden as a matter of fact. i just searched of google for them) |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 02 Nov 2010 : 12:02:39 PM
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To change the seal on the back of the transmission is fairly easy; gently prise out the old one with a blade screwdriver. When you put the new one in, you put it into position, then gently tap it in with a socket or length of pipe that matches the diameter of the seal. This will make sure the seal will go in smoothly
As for the power steering rack fittings, most mechanics will undo the rack from the crossmember to get at them. Source one oil seal for each type (the fittings along the rack, and the hoses that go to the pump) then go to any hydraulic specialists. Tell them you want the high temperature versions of the seals you have. These will last longer, and be more reliable in the long run. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 7:47:01 PM
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ive got my seal today from repco for a cheap $6.70 and went to put it on. thing is i dont know how to get to the seal. ive been told by one person that you drop the driveline and remove it that way so i tried but dont know how to undo the coupling that connects it to the arm on the gearbox. then another person told me to undo 2 to 4 bolts that are at the back of the box itself but i couldnt even try because i dont know what heads the bolts have on them because i just cant see them. and even then it doesnt look like undoing them would work because they appear to be apart of the actual shell of the unit. wow, im babbling on... again..
cheers any help would be appreciated greatly cause its almost ready for roadworthy after almost a year...
Cheers |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 04 Nov 2010 : 10:32:31 PM
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| If you undo the tailshaft, and pull it out of the back of the gearbox, you will have access to the seal itself. A VN's tailshaft will have this centre bearing arrangement, then a shortish stubby shaft that connects inside the box. Undo the nuts on the diff, undo the bolts on the centre bearing, and slide it forwards until it clears the diff bolts, then backwards out of the way. You will see the seal surrounding a shaft with a spline on it. Stick a blade screwdriver inside the lip of the seal, and gently prise it out. It may fight you a little, but don't get too aggro with it, or you might damage the housing. Once it's out, you put the new one in with the method I described above. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 7:35:09 PM
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| do you mean the 2 bolts holding the bracket to the chassis where the centre bearing is or the 6 allan key bolts connecting the 2 halves of the pipe??? cause if its the latter im gonna hate this job but if its the first... well its still annoying to do with these seized bolts but alot less then the first! I was trying to work on it today after work but gave up at dark. i was working on the diff end and after an hour found out that you need to undo the bolts and NOT the nuts. after that i realised that i could get them all out that way but they wouldnt come out fully so thought that it would be usless to do it so went to work on the middle of it. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 10:22:56 PM
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| I'm fairly sure you can get away with just undoing the two bolts that hold that centre bearing housing up. The Allen key bolts would likely be for changing said centre bearing (check to make sure it's ok while you have it out of the car) Another point to note; mark the back of the driveshaft where the universal joint attaches to the diff. It's important that the universal joint goes back how it was, or it may affect the balance on the driveshaft. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 10:34:45 AM
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| awsome to hear that should save me about... 3 years in labour. lol |
Bassist by day, VN nut by night |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 3:40:13 PM
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| Of course, the more "in bits" the car is, the more you should check while it's in bits. Nothing worse than fixing something, only to discover that something else has spat the dummy ten minutes later that you didn't spot |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 7:24:44 PM
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| wow what a bitch of a job. got 3 out of 4 bolts out so far but had to pack up cause it got dark... og an my hands almost fell off from trying to pry the last one loose. wow is it stuck hard using a spanner with another one on the end for leverage and plently of wd-40 and it still wont budge. but not giving up because tomorrow im gonna try and spin the shaft to get at it easier. also changed my engine oil today and the filter and just about destroyed the old filter and my wrists getting it off. i broke one filter remover and only just got it with the 2nd one i had around then toped up my steering resoviour with more fluid from its leak and also added some stop leak stuff to it which should help seal the leak for the time being at least. |
Bassist by day, VN nut by night |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 06 Nov 2010 : 10:06:23 PM
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Next time you have an oil filter that won't move, there's a bush way of removing it; put the drain pan underneath it, and drive a long screwdriver or metal bar through it, towards the end of the filter. Be careful not to hit anything sensitive, but this method never fails when you get a stubborn one. Another less "destructive" way to do it, is to knock a groove into the rim of the filter, and tap it to turn it.
You might have a small amount of oil dribble out when you pull out the tailshaft; not a huge concern, just put something down to catch it. The driveshaft itself forms part of the rear seal, so it's normal for there to be some leakage |
Edited by - Mechknight73 on 06 Nov 2010 10:09:20 PM |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 10:26:45 AM
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| finally changed it over. i didnt have a socket big enough to tap it in with so i cut out a bit of hard wood and drilled a hole in that as something to nock it in evenly all the way around. didnt quite work because it was suck a tight fit so in the end i just lightly tapped it in with a steel hammer till it was flush. put it all back together and presto no more oil leeks. :) fcuk yeah roadworthy this week if all goes well :) |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 6:24:13 PM
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| Good to hear. Remembe to take it to one of those DIY car wash places, raise it onto your axle stands and clean off all traces of grease that you can see. Otherwise the inspector might just assume you still have a leak. A former boss of mine used to be a WA vehicle inspector, and if he saw a greasy oil seal, he would immediately fail it. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 5:48:53 PM
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| going for roady and if good rego as well tomorrow. 60 something for cirt and to make sure i get it i just cleaned off the underside of my precious with some degreaser and the hose :) cant wait and really hope i get it!! |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 11:10:37 PM
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| If they're reasonable, they'll be looking at it for more of a safety angle than anything else. "What would happen to the occupants of this car in a crash? And is there anything here that could cause a crash?" Eliminate anything that is a likely candidate in that category, as well as the previously mentioned oil leaks, and you should be ok. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 4:00:43 PM
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| went for it about 2 hours ago and failed :( i got a list which includes rear brake discs and pads need doing, lines from fuel tank, alot of different bushes, indicator stalk doesnt return when wheel is realligned, oddometer doesnt turn over and the small leak in my rack is infact a cause to get a recod one costing around 500+ for them to do it aswell. all up if i can do what i said i could it should set me back around 1100 for the stuff the mechanics need to do:( |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 7:52:42 PM
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Discs and pads are easy. go buy a brake pad clamp (about $15) some pads, and scour the wreckers for some rotors. The rules for disc rotors are as follows, for all states:
- There must be at least 12mm thickness on the disc contact surface. In other words, when the brake pads contact the rear discs (solid) they must be at least 12mm apart. On the front discs, there must be at least 12mm between the vents and the pad. Get some quotes on machining if the contact surfaces have some ridges. While the disc rotors are off check the handbrake shoes, just in case.
If you mean the breather hoses on the filler neck are leaking, it's it a pain of a job, but you can do it at home. Drain as much fuel as you can from the tank, disconnect the fuel lines and disconnect the filler neck (will explain in detail if you get stuck) There's nothing unusual about the breather hoses; just ordinary fuel line, held in place with ordinary clamps. Take a sample of each, and buy a couple of metres to replace them.
The indicator stalk, once you have the shroud on the steering column and the steering wheel off, is a simple thing to replace. Three screws and two or three connectors to get it off. Before you do, have a look at the one in there. The return mechanism is controlled by two metal springs. They look like two metal strips with a bend in the middle. If you can refit them to make it work, and it all stays in place, one less thing to replace.
The odometer is something you will have to either get reconditioned, or swap it out with another one. The best quote I've had in either Victoria or Western Australia is $160, but that's a complete recon of an Executive instrument cluster. The problem lies with a tiny gear at the back of the odometer mechanism. I know some have bought that gear, but I personally don't know how to replace them |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 1:21:44 PM
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| got into the speedo unit ok and found the culperate. when i get the new part ill switch it straight out and hopefully pick up some more much needed parts from repco on monday like mounts and bushes etc. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 1:32:12 PM
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by the way, does anyone have any idea where to get the replacement METAL cog for the oddometer? ebay and repco dont have any. Cheers
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Mr Persistant
P Plater
72 Posts
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Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 8:17:56 PM
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I did the plastic gear in my odometer about 12 months ago. Are you sure you are looking at the right gear? You mean your gear is metal, or you just want to replace the plastic gear with a metal one?
I found it to be just as the link posted by VNSVLE describes it, only a little bit more fiddly. |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 9:34:30 PM
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| naahm its deffinatly the right one. small little broken plastic piece of **** that i want to replace with a metal one. i think you can get them in brass because my uncle did his one when he had it. i dont know when that was though. |
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Mr Persistant
P Plater
72 Posts
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Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 10:01:52 PM
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I understand wanting to put something better in there, but if you consider that the original plastic one lasted for longer than you are likely to keep the car, it might not be such a huge deal. Also, I think that gear has to mesh with one, or several, other plastic gears and they might last better if turning a plastic gear rather than a brass gear. And the replacement plastic gear you buy might also be better quality plastic than the original, (or not.) Just something to consider.
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