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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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 Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 02:46:15 AM
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This may sound like a silly move but is the floor pan the same shape in a vn than a vr as I'm looking at swapping the live axel for IRS with abs and using the chassis rails from the donnor car or is it way to much out to even think of doing this if not how can I fit abs to live axel as I'm doing vr front end as well any help on this will be great thanks gang
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 4:56:00 PM
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I can't be 100% sure, as I've never done it, but I'd find a VQ Statesman shell, and study how it all goes together. The Statesman shell uses the same wheelbase as the wagon, and as the VQ is VN based, you can look at the exact differences. The Statesmans had IRS as standard equipment. It may just be a simple "cut the bits you need off and weld them in" or it might be more complicated, but looking under one should at least tell you how much work is involved.
As for the ABS, that was also standard equipment on the Statesman, and I would study the wiring harness to find out how it all went together.
The VN-VS were the same car in the same way that the HQ-WB Kingswoods are essentially the same car; things were added and improved along the way, but they were bolted to the same basic shell and floorpan. VN-VS all started with the same shell too, they just changed the bits bolted and welded to them. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 5:26:10 PM
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| How dopey of me to forget, the VP Commodore had IRS and ABS as optional extras; change a few details, and a VP is just about a Series II VN! |
Edited by - Mechknight73 on 12 Dec 2010 5:27:16 PM |
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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 9:54:38 PM
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| Thanks heaps I'm striping a vr shell and been looking at the floors mounting points think it may fit will check it out and let you know what's the go as far as I've worked it out it's the two rails diff x member I'm hoping that the shocker point are in right spot. All I can do is look hard and take pics welding is not an issue know how to do it properly |
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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 10:06:36 PM
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| O and thanks for the info on the abs vp has same tower as vn so I just need the bit to mount the sender for the front disc that's gunna save trying to fit vr parts in as the tower tops are way off as a mate said today craft the strut mount in bugger that vp is the way to go you have put my mind at ease on that job. All going well it looks like the old bt1 gunna have abs IRS and airbags lol cool bet there's not many vn,s with all that thanks heaps knight73 |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 11:02:49 PM
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The only VN based cars with all that are usually Statesmans or Caprices. Craft it right, and you could spread the bull thick and say "it's a factory prototype that escaped the crusher." lol
I can remember the Series 1 VRs had this strange system for the strut towers; it's as if they did a quick mod to the VP ones, by adding a plate inside the strut tower, that angles it back to match the VR spec. VN/VP struts being more vertical than the VR ones |
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voodoo92
Fully Licenced
150 Posts
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Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 11:27:27 PM
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| love the idea on the lucky escape for the prototype |
Bassist by day, VN nut by night |
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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 01:13:48 AM
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| True mate it's somthing that I'm only going to one step at a time do it right first time around I will be glad to post my findings on what steps are needed as for prototype that's a pisser. All I'm trying is just to make my car something different that one day at a car show or a meet somewhere people will look and go wow that's odd never seen one with that set up you know what I saying I'm not after big hp it's running a ecotec v6. I'm a family man and driving to a meet in it will be comfy lol dam I'm sounding like an old fart. Glad I googled this forum it's got the right type of members in it |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 4:47:02 PM
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| The IRS system is an Opel "modification;" it dates back to the days of the VB/VC Commodores. The Opels Rekord, Senator and Monza had versions of their rear suspension that was IRS. The Monza is a VC-type coupe, the Rekord a base model, and the Senator a luxury model. In theory, you could add it to any model Commodore, as they all started with the same floorpan. |
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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 7:01:10 PM
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| Mmmm tru I've been looking at it for hrs and come up with a thing I may do use the vr body and change the rear quarter panels there mating in the same spot so the outside of the car is vn style this keeps the rails tru just need to put my vn tags on the vr wall as I was going to do with a firewall change it seems like a faster mod and I still get same at the end what's your ideas on this |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 11:12:51 PM
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| In doing so, to properly disguise the shell, you would also need to change the rear c-pillar windows as well; the VN windows behind the rear doors on a sedan are flat, whereas the ones on the VR/S curve slightly. On a wagon, this isn't an issue because externally, the only differences between the rear ends of a VN-VS are paint, badging and tail lights. Unsure as to how you would do that mod, but if you're handy with a Mig welder, it can be done. With the VN bootlid and rear quarters, that would be easy. There might be some minor mods on the headlight mountings on the body for VN headlights. If it is indeed just a project car, and getting it over the pits isn't a problem, I'd leave the VR tags. If you get caught, it could be really messy. |
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bt1aero
P Plater
48 Posts
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Posted - 14 Dec 2010 : 06:55:53 AM
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| The back windows are no prob that's the first bit I checked as in where it runs with the c piller and finding that area lines up but with vn panels grafted the under side of the window is no issue. As my first idea was to graft vr dash rails and all the other bits just feel taking the panel option is a over all safer on to I'm gunna just stop steep back and look at the pros an cons your advise is very grateful and I do thank you |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 14 Dec 2010 : 5:42:53 PM
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| No probs,if you're a whiz with a Mig, shouldn't be too hard to do. I'll be the first to admit that I suck at bodywork, I'm more of an engineer and mechanic, but lack the qualifications for either. I'm working towards building a WB one tonner powered by a VP V6, although haven't got far in the project yet due to money. Once finished, it will be unlike any seen before. |
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M3ZZA
P Plater
77 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 2:06:45 PM
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Just a quick question but isn't irs known as a bad thing to commodore owners because all i ever heard was camber this and that and axel tramp and all those issues. Also wouldn't cutting up the chassis deem the car a write off ?
I dont mean to sound like a smart a**e either i just allways thought off irs as a bad thing but irs and abs in a vn would be cool |
Modifying a car is like a drug once you start you cannot stop. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 2:56:10 PM
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If you fit modified suspension in a way that requires welding and cutting, you may need an engineering certificates to get it registered, but it can definitely be done. After all, there's a bloke by the name of John Taverna that does this kind of thing for a living. A classic example of his work was one pink '69 Chevy Camaro with a full chassis. The original had rear leaf and "dinosaur" front coil. With his mods, it went round corners like Peter Brock's last A9X Torana.
I've just found a photo of the conventional rear axle and the independent rear axle side by side, and it looks like it would be easier to either replace that section of the floorpan, or bolt and weld all the VN bits onto the VR shell. The diff itself has a conventional "cradle" but where it bolts to the floorpan is definitely different. It would require some welding, but the best way would be to ask Vic Roads whether it's legal to do so. Like all states, they have a Technical Services division, that will give you a straight answer as to whether what you want to do is allowed or not.
The main thing that people seem to get wrong with Commodores that have IRS is that they go too far when they lower them. This creates rear camber issues, that contributes to the axle tramp, and wears out tyres much faster. |
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M3ZZA
P Plater
77 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 5:23:32 PM
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| So is it true that these irs diff's are weaker then the live axel diffs ? |
Modifying a car is like a drug once you start you cannot stop. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 11:19:26 PM
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| IF they have a weakness, it's the CV joints on the diff.Although this is often caused by a lack of maintenance. Haven't heard any reports myself on stockers packing it in like the rear main seals on the XF Falcon, so I'm guessing it's mostly from abuse AND neglect that they tend to die |
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M3ZZA
P Plater
77 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 08:59:25 AM
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| I heard they get diff whine very easy and then they blow up. |
Modifying a car is like a drug once you start you cannot stop. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 2:42:36 PM
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| It's possible, although I'd be interested to talk to those whom have had one go, and what was happening before it blew |
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VN91SX
Fully Licenced
344 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2011 : 5:03:58 PM
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| I certainly wouldn't be swapping a live axle for IRS. You always know when a VT is on the road, just listen for shocking diff whine lol. "She's got an L67 under the hood doesn't she?" "Nah, that's just the diff whine!" |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 10:16:39 PM
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| Floor pan is completely different between the live and IRS so would require quite a bit of work. Would be better getting a VP IRS body and swapping everything over. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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