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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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 Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 3:20:49 PM
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3 days ago i replaced the coil pack (block type).
went for a drive and everything ok.
So today i went on a 60k trip..quite warm, but all good. Stopped at a few places and on the way home made 1 more stop.
There was a few cars so i turned mine off. After about 3-4 minutes i needed to move, And car would not start..Turned over, coughed spluttered etc etc. lucky i got a good bettery.
Had a look under the bonnet, everything normal, nothing had come lose on coil pack.
Turned her over and pumped accellerator and eventually it got going, But Rough as a dodgy tractor. Had too keep revs at about 2000 and chuck it into drive..Long story short, 60k an hour finally got home, Overheated, could see the coolant boiling in the resoviour.Let her sit for a while, turned key and she tried to start..so hopefully i hav'nt wrecked the ol bat.
i'm guessing the coil pack failed.
Any ideas???
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 3:22:52 PM
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oh yeah....and considering its almost 40 degrees out side......i think i'll do it tomorrow.
And i don't think the thermo fan started either. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 10:32:36 PM
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There are three parts to check on the thermo fan; the fan itself (check it by running direct to the battery for a second) the fan sensor (two pin thingy at the back of the intake manifold) and the relay (metal one maked "LP CHECK"in the realy box above the battery)
As for the cooling system check the following:
IS the coolant any colour from pee yellow to rust brown? If it's rust brown, it's likely you have a clogged radiator.
Do you have any cooling system leaks? The two most common places S1s leak is from the radiator tanks, and from the coolant resevoir. Check both when you fill it back up.
It is likely the coil pack has done a dummy spit. Best way to tell is if the "roughness" is in a rhythm; if it sounds like it's consistently not firing on all cylinders, then you need to test it with a new one. |
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Mr Persistant
P Plater
72 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 09:37:54 AM
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I think you have 2 separate issues here - cooling system & ignition system.
Unfortunately, the ignition system has a few likely suspects which are difficult to treat individually and have confidence you have knocked the problem on the head. My primary suspect for your hard starting would actually be the CAS (crank angle sensor).
As for the coil pack - most repair shops and parts retailers will tell you to replace coil pack and ignition module together. I would add plugs and leads to that list.
Think that's overkill? The issue is you only need one dodgy spark plug or lead and suddenly your brand new coil pack can't unload it's spark properly and will try to find another path to do so - possibly by zapping a path through your new coil or the DFI modeule.
On the positive side, all the parts are relatively cheap and easily available, and quick and easy to install. From that aspect alone, I would not despair of the old VN's reliability yet. 
Your cooling system - could be a number of things. It is summer afterall. Old degraded coolant, weak radiator/pressur cap, muck in cooling system (from running crappy coolant). If it was boiling after driving at 60km/hr, it's unlikely to be your fan as I'm pretty sure that's not even supposed to be on once you're doing more than 40km/hr. It's also quite possible that the engine running like crap contributed to running hot.
I think you have a bit of money to spend on this, not a lot if you can do it yourself, but a bit, in order to make it run reliably. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 10:14:09 AM
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If your thermo fan isn't running at all, the engine will run hot if it has a. a crap radiator b. a clogged radiator. This would obviously be at low speeds, when airflow doesn't come naturally.
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 3:23:14 PM
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cheers for the replys...heres the heads up.
Replaced new coil pack with old one (i changed it because it had cracks)
And the ol girl started straight away...an was running good, no miss fires.
drove up the backyard , reversed into carport, put into park and stalled.
would not start again, although i only tried a few times...????
so was running for about 2 minutes.
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Edited by - Tonto on 01 Jan 2011 3:25:17 PM |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 4:47:35 PM
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Have you confirmed whether you have any ignition? Simplest way to do it would be to put a screwdriver into the end of one of the R/H plug leads, and put the shaft of the screwdriver near something with a solid metal contact, such as the exhaust manifold. Make sure the screwdriver has metal-to-metal contact inside the end of the plug lead. Briefly turn the engine over, and see if you can see any spark. If you can't then it means something in either the ignition module, crank angle sensor or coil pack isn't working.
I know there's a forum topic somewhere here that says how to test a coil pack. It would pay to test all the ignition components, just so you know specifically which one has to be replaced.
With computer repairs, the standard way of testing faults was to "swap out" the part we think is stuffed. Change them one at a time, and see if it makes a difference. If you have any way of testing that without having to shell out for each individual component, go for it. It might be something tiny like a loose or damaged connection you may not have seen. Bad connections create resistance, which will behave exactly how it happened to you. The trick is to find the cause of the resistance |
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Mr Persistant
P Plater
72 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 7:01:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tonto
Replaced new coil pack with old one (i changed it because it had cracks)
It might well have done exactly the same if you'd not changed anything and simply tried to start it again. The electronic components play up when they get really hot, and will often/usually recover when totally cooled down again...until they warm up again after 10-15 minutes and the engine stops again. 
The standard test for the CAS, for example, is to pour cool water over the sensor at the front there if you're having problems when it's all hot...if engine starts and runs, you've found at least one problem to fix.
About the ignition systemt diagnosis and switching coilpacks...if you try and take a new coilpack back to Repco, for instance, they will ask if you replaced the DFI module with it at the time, and vica verca for if you buy a DFI module from them. They've seen a LOT of this. I know it seems over the top, but the good part is if you replace it all, you don't have to touch the ignition system ever again...particularly if you put Iridium long life plugs in.
Then you've still got your cooling system to look into, which hopefully won't involve anything inside the engine beyond perhaps a flush.
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 8:29:36 PM
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ok...thats what i will do i think, Swap DFI and ciol pack over to the round type...new leads and sparks.( iridium's)
i have a filter so will oil change too, as for cooling system, there are no leaks and coolant still green.
will give a flush and if someone recommends me a good brand of coolant, i will get it.
i am to understand i can get a new dfi/coil pack that will plug straight into a series 1???
can i check for error code ...i;e crank angle sensor????? |
Edited by - Tonto on 01 Jan 2011 8:33:22 PM |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 11:33:50 PM
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Good idea. There's a How to for that. All you'll need is possibly a blade screwdriver and a paperclip. You'll find it in the how-to section here.
Toyota's genuine coolant, that looks a lot like raspberry cordial, would be a good start for coolant. It's not cheap, but it does both the things coolant is meant to do very well; lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling temperature of the coolant, and inhibits corrosion like nothing else on the market. It tends to last longer than the usual coolant as well. It doesn't go bad as fast |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 08:01:28 AM
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ok....error codes.
Code 13
O2 (oxygen) sensor has gone 'open circuit'. Replace the O2 sensor, and ensure that the thread it screws into is clean so as the body of the O2 sensor will make a good electrical contact with the exhaust manifold.
and.....
Code 42
Electronic Spark Timing Circuit. Caused primarily by the CAS packing it in. Can also be caused by a faulty coil pack, or DFI module. Check all electrical connections.
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Edited by - Tonto on 05 Jan 2011 08:03:06 AM |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 3:01:22 PM
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ok...quoted $140 Crank angle sensor replacement..a lot better than i thought.
will get that done next week, replace oxy sensor, filter/oil change and coolant.(i'll check out a flush treatment too)
and see how the old girl goes.
ex mechanic said "she'll be right...pretty hard to kill those engines" |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 3:37:21 PM
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The CAS always seems to be the "rogue Gremlin" that causes most Holden V6s to play up. They can withstand a lot of abuse, and are fairly forgiving. Surprisingly for an engine with electronic management, easy to diagnose and service.
I can remember the days when you could "read" a spark plug by what kind of deposits were on it. That just about solved 80% of the tuning problems.
When it comes to engine flushes, it helps if you can put some pressure into the flush. The standard way is to put something slightly corrosive through the cooling system to "loosen" the rust particles. My former boss at the roadhouse used to add compressed air to the mix to help "blow" it out. Connected a special fitting to the top radiator hose. corked up the top of the radiator and held his hand over the lower hose. Let the pressure build then let it go in a series of blasts, which was more thorough. You could actually see the rust, shale and other garbage on the ground. |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 8:07:07 PM
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i Guess the CAS goes without warning??.
Thats what happened to mine, but i see some reports that a faulty coil pack,DFI Module could also cause the CAS to pack it in.
i had a brand new coil pack on an old module...100k's later..CAS packed it in...???....who knows.
we are in the market to by the missus a new car anyway...she wants a Kia Carnival, i guess she is giving me hints that its time to extend the family. So the VN i will get going enough to see us out until we get a new car...then i'll remove the stereo, Wheels/tyres ( same as VT)
and sell very cheaply to whomever will come and remove it from the backyard..(hint-hint)
or the VT could get traded for another VN.....or VR/VS....i do like the VN though...and having 2 would be handy
anyway, will get this one going first |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 11:16:09 PM
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Trust me, DO NOT buy a Kia anything; they are cheaply made, crappily built things that are not worth the trouble. If you must get a people mover, you would be better off getting a used Tarago than a new Kia. After about 18 months, you will start to see things that will upset you; trims coming loose, brake pads wearing before their time, or if you're really unlucky, major mechanical faults. Having worked in car yards, I know to stay away from them because of just how bad they are.
If you can, steer her towards a Tarago. Tell her to just take one for a spin, and see what she thinks. Or if that's too big, a Toyota Town Ace. Although you'd have more fun with the Tarago. Not only have they got more tricks than a Swiss Army knife, when you put your foot down, they actually have some go. |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 08:15:56 AM
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yes, got her looking at Torago's too..not as common, a little more expensive, and i am trying to find one around here for a test drive.
Very stubborn though, he Uncle is ex mechanic, i will get him to have a chat to her i think. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 4:24:27 PM
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| I would politely ask her uncle to "dump on" them as much as possible. The list of things that go wrong with them makes a Jaguar of any model look as reliable as sunrise and sunset. They should be what you buy when you can't afford a "real car, just like you go to McDonalds when you're either too lazy, or can't afford to get "real" food. |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 12:02:09 AM
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well....she went to the mechanic today, and also asked him to check the new coil pack, i work arvo's this week so got home late.
Nice grin on my face when i saw the ol girl parked in the drivway, gave her a pat, got the torch, and checked under the bonnet.
Cas fixed and new coil pack was put back on....no note though so will see him tomorrow...if he's happy with it i will change oil, get new coolant and look at getting a 'rounded' type coil pack/dfi.
even though its old and worn out....i missed driving my VN
I am lending the old mans Diesel Hi-lux....ok up a steep hill or through flooded roads, but handles like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 10:00:40 AM
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You have to remember that despite their faults, Hiluxes are one of the most reliable utes around. When I worked for an Avis franchise, we used to hire our Hiluxes, Landcruisers and Prados out to mining contractors, the toughest test you can put any vehicle through. With only a handful of exceptions, they seemed to shrug it off and get back to work (you can't ignore "crunchy grindy" noises coming from a transfer case, especially when said rock smashed a hole in the front of the casing)
As to your missus and her people mover search, I have one other suggestion; the Honda Odyssey. Sometimes hard to find, they will match a Tarago for reliability, but look cooler, dare I say that about people movers. |
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Tonto
P Plater
67 Posts
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Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 8:18:07 PM
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Coolant changed, Oil etc and finally got a chance to take the ol girl for a spin...about 1 hour locally in case anything went wrong, Temp ok, Ran good, went home for a beer.
Decided later on to give her another burl.
No go....would not start, excatly like a few weeks before, engine was cold too.
so...Cas replaced, New coil pack ( but not DFI), leads and sparks would only be 2 year old.
i'm really leaning towards this coil pack, even though (i think) he tested it as OK. I have only had problems with the new coil pack
i hav'nt yet replaced O2 sensor, was told this is not a major as yet, and will run without it ok.just a bit more thirsty
unless anyone has any other thoughts....i'll get DFI/Coil pack upgraded....albiet second hand
looks like one of thoses 'Process of Elimination' jobs
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