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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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 Posted - 02 May 2012 : 2:58:51 PM
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hi im new here however i have had vn's since 2006 been great and reliable cars however i not long ago bought a 89 exec in need of attention previous owners decided it be cool to have power options aftermarket mirrors and a s2 motor since i have bout this car its been a little so and so....
my main concern for now i guess is to work out why it running too rich this is where i get lost...... i have checked fuel injectors serviced it im yet to do the fuel filter and the coils spark great can anyone start pointing me in the right direction please
its a t5 with s2 motor manual comp with apnx 1687 chip i do have other chips if it will help but jus need to know were to start now also need to work out the "flo cal" in the trip comp
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kingbucktoo
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54 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2012 : 6:01:52 PM
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Too rich can be caused by nearly every sensor in the motor, but you can start with a few simple changes
1: I would change the O2 sensor in the exhaust. get a new one and install it. These sensor only last 50-80 000 kms, I'll guess its never been changed. it should only cost around $60 (repco) try for a Bosch (OEM). As O2 sensor ages they don't respond quick enough to the changes in O2 in the exhaust so your motor is lagging in its feed back to correct the over or under fueling.
2: Injector cleaner: Injectors can gum up and stop spraying the fuel correctly use a injector cleaner or 98 RON fuel
3: Check the plugs for correct gap, reset or renew
4: Disconnect the battery ( I forgotten for how long, 5 mins ) to reset the ECU, this removes previous learned tables and starts afresh.
One other question how far are you getting on a tank of fuel?. So how many kilometres to the litre are you getting . Update this post with a figure and maybe some other members have a figure for their cars for you to compare. Also what fuel are using from the petrol pump, 91,95, 98 and if it has E10.
Also welcome to the club.
Sorry I can't give you a comparison to my car, V8 manual, and I'm not worried about its fuel economy, If the fuel gauge reads empty time to fill up. and I must of had some fun!!! |
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2012 : 6:17:05 PM
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ok oxy sensor would make sence although i dunno if its as simple as that i always run 98 not matter wat the dash board is not showing speed all the time only when it wants to either i hit a bump or sum cold mornings the trip comp an spedo will work however in my wagon which is about 1.6tons i use bout 50 bucks for same trip i did the other day which i used 150
i think there was a sus injector or 2 so i changed them today i dc the bat jus b4.
plugs are bosch super plus with yttruim need leads coils are good atm mine probably run more fuel than urs lol |
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kingbucktoo
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54 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2012 : 11:09:11 PM
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I just had another thought about the amount of fuel you said you are using.
I had a coolant temperature sensor for the ECU go faulty it was stuck at 88 degrees which caused hard to start in winter and the car went through heaps of fuel because the ECU was sensing the motor was still warming up so it was like running the car with choke always on.
Have a look for a small air leak on the MAP sensor vacuum hose might be another place to look.
I looked at my holden notes for increased fuel used. It listed the possible sensors that could your problem
High Fuel Pressure
MAP sensor Operation
leaking injector
ignition earth circuit
canister purge
coolant temperature sensor circuit
MAT sensor circuit
TPS sensor operation
O2 sensor
If you have a holden/gregorys manual I'm sure it has instructions on how to measure the O2 sensor while motor is running and how to test the other sensors for their correct operation.
I would change the O2 after you have found the major fault causing your problem or the last option on your list as if its not the problem your super rich exhaust will just clog it up and you'll have to replace it again.
Have you looked for fault codes on your ECU??
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2012 : 11:32:03 PM
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ok this provides me with a lil list to look at suspects can i narrow it down? it starts up ok winds for bout 15sec then fires it does do the cold air straight away but then idles normal at 600rpm jus checked injectors today ran cleaner couple weeks ago did change o2 however i see your point with being cloged again i swaped map
not sure wat is earth for ignition canister can has no top on it and usually always runs 1st bar while driving unless in traffic then i turn the fan on i also bought a ald cable an disk however if i can find the disk it may be scratched.
there was also a problem previously as the last owners wired a fuse using at least one or more wires from enginebay which runs the pump, with reds on its constant once its started seems ok however i could be worng |
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kingbucktoo
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54 Posts
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Posted - 02 May 2012 : 11:59:24 PM
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I'm not sure about the earth for the ignition circuit, I would give a small guess it the way the EST/ coil pack are mounted onto the motor the other critical earths on the motor are from the ECU wiring loom, One earth terminates on the alternator mount and the other is left hand bank near the firewall. but if these where missing your motor would be rough or not going.
Have you change the fuel pump??
Are talking about WINALDL that should help you alot as you can see all the sensors values while the car is running, saves having to measure with a voltmeter, Compare your two cars |
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 03 May 2012 : 12:44:22 AM
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| yeah thats the cable i got sumwere but i dunno if disk is good or not :( moved around too much since i bought it i didnt thing the pump i hav a good one in a wag should be same? |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 03 May 2012 : 3:57:53 PM
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| any idea wat value to set the flo cal on the trip comp? |
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kingbucktoo
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54 Posts
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Posted - 03 May 2012 : 6:57:05 PM
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The program is down loadable from the Net. just but in WINALDL is pops up really quick.
I'll ask a silly question. what value have you tried? This value just helps the trip computer to work out how many km to empty?? |
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CommaDora
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22 Posts
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Posted - 04 May 2012 : 07:30:55 AM
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| Well...my VN wagon used quite a bit of extra fuel for a fortnight , but ran perfectly ( im talking double!) then she shut right down....looks like the injector driver in the ECU went and jammed them on all the time....still at Auto electricians. Pays to check that ECU. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 04 May 2012 : 6:36:00 PM
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Not to mention recondition one off the car if you think that may be your problem. In diagnostics, you always swap out with "known good" parts.
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 09 May 2012 : 1:08:52 PM
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| swaped the ones that were the problem or thought to be the problem but how common is this ecu stuff up? i got a few auto comps in the garage but no manual ones |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 09 May 2012 : 7:27:02 PM
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ECM is the same manual and auto just differenct memcal. Although the memcal is different it will still run with either.
Cheers |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 13 May 2012 : 2:14:42 PM
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ok this is wat i got
ecu fault codes
13: 02 sensor
42: electronic spart timing circut
45: 02 sensor rich
unsure if the 02 sensor needs a clean or not but i no i not long replaced it |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 13 May 2012 : 5:59:11 PM
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i swaped the dfi an coils over to a more recent one had the batt off cleaned the sensor put back together then took it out again and got
13: 02 sensor
45: 02 sensor rich |
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 13 May 2012 : 6:00:14 PM
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| even under the 400 rpm mark its still rich as all i smell is fumes |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 21 May 2012 : 4:28:44 PM
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just tried a auto pfi comp i think a s1 this time it didnt give me 13 02 sensor but it gave me 45 air fuel but the light only came on for a split second i no things point normally to the 02 sensor faulty however i think there is sumthin else going on in there need to find time to rewire the relay for the pump an figure out how the 2nd reg can be taken out
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CommaDora
P Plater
22 Posts
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Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:17:41 AM
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I still think mine is using a bit too much...here is a comparison....around 7 litres gets me 50 ks......is this normal for short town runs ? In the old scale thats around 20mpg....i thought VNs were suppossed to get 30 mpg...or is that just highway running ?
Can short runs make so much difference ? Short as in i live 8 ks out of town.
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:00:19 PM
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| My stock auto VN will do up to 10km out of a litre on the highway, and about7.5-8km per litre, depending on my driving and whether or not the aircon is on. Stop start driving will mess with the fuel economy of even the latest Corolla |
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 23 May 2012 : 1:07:38 PM
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| my sedan is getting 400km to 100L or broken down to 25L per 100 km |
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kingbucktoo
P Plater
54 Posts
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Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:49:53 PM
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Do you have a workshop manual for the VN? Does the workshop manual go through how to test the sensors with multimeter?? If not I would invest in one!!
You can measure alot of the sensors values while motor is running with a digital multimeter.
Some Hints:
Leaking fuel injector, my notes says the car diesel on when the ignition is just turned off.
Fuel pressure reading I guess you need a pressure gauge, maybe a quick trip to the mechanic will get the possible number 1 cause of high fuel consumption ticked off the list I gave you.
If my car had fuel consumption figures your quoting I reckon it would be running rough at idle, coughing and spluttering under load, possible even backfiring as you backed off the accelerator.
When your car is at idle does your exhaust come out as a black sooty smoke??? Like the good old days when cars had manual chokes!!!
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 24 May 2012 : 12:55:53 PM
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| yeah shes a bit dark it pops wen i come of accelorator idles ok but it goes up then down and half throttle it detonates an farts |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 24 May 2012 : 7:12:37 PM
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| im getting cofused with my book it tells me return line is on the passenger side however the pump is pumpin into that side i tried to swap it and it didnt run????? i dont understand it all i thought fuel in went to the reg |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 24 May 2012 : 8:09:00 PM
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Return line is passenger side, fuel supply is drivers side sstraight into the fuel pressure reg.
If it is supplyiny fuel to the return side then it is wrong and if it will not run when connected to the pressure reg it sounds like the pressure reg is buggered and to get it to run they have swapped the lines.
It should run like this but the fuel supply will not be regulated.
You need to find out if the fuel reg is wrecked and change it as well as the fuel lines back to the correct way. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 24 May 2012 : 8:15:56 PM
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| i have another s2 reg sitting around could it be a possibility that all my codes and problems relating to fuel an runnin be down to jus the reg buggered a hoses put opposite? |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 24 May 2012 : 10:49:28 PM
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| question would the s1 and s2 rails be the smae for line in and return line? |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 27 May 2012 : 12:42:30 PM
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I believe so.
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What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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evl78uc
P Plater
61 Posts
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Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 9:03:52 PM
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| hmmmmm for memory my s1 regulator takes the fuel in and the other side is return howeve on this one its opposite which would explain the 2nd reg i dunno weather to put another s2 reg on it change the lines or fix the relay problem up 1st |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 02:34:18 AM
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Picture 1 is series one setup. Fuel reg is circled and is black -
Picture 2 is series two. Fuel reg is circled and is silver -
Also note that the series 1 fuel rail is black steel tubing where as the series 2 is all alloy.
The fuel pressure regulator is used to regulate the pressure going into the rail. The more throttle you use the more vacuum the engine produces
which in turn opens the regulator accordingly. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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evl78uc
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61 Posts
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Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 5:36:43 PM
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| yeah well thats not the case on the sedanthe 2nd reg is doing the job only just enough on the "return" side so i will need to change stock reg and swap the lines over jus unsure wat difference the pump relay is doing being rewired |
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too much fuel
