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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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 Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 7:32:40 PM
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Hey i went to start my car and got a horrible crunchin noise instead of a starting cough
turns out the starter had destroyed itself so thought ah wel replace it. did just that and started fine. went for a drive to do a few things but a couple of times got nasty crunch sound out of something but car ran sweet
got home and turned of car, thought try starting again just to be sure and crack bang crunch and another starters gone
WHY? i think either flywheel or electrical but not so smart on it so help please
thanks
btw 89 vn v6 auto
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 6:45:34 PM
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Hey Mate , The flex plate on the v6 will only stop at two points when the motors turned off .
when you crank it over (with normal wear) these two positions get worn away by the starter gear .
as a quick fix for a while , turn the motor over clock wise a few inches with the fan belt .
this will move the flex plate onto the unworn part , making it possible to start with no noise.
i would try this first , if you still get a lot of grinding it may be the starter itself ? |
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VN91SX
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344 Posts
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Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 8:01:07 PM
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| That sounds like pretty fare advice. It will be interesting to know how you go lemusa |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 8:46:53 PM
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| @dryVN - why do you say that the flexplate will only stop in 2 positions?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 9:36:11 PM
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its just some advice i got from a mechanic , i don't know why the flex plate stops at these points ?
he did tell me but this was 6 years ago so the memory on this is not great ....
on my old executive the starter gear would slip and grind , failing to crank the motor at all .
sometimes making loud screeching noises at all hours of the morning. (i used to work night shift)
so for six months i would have to turn by hand the fan belt a bit , before every time i started the car .
it worked .... then when i had the cash i got him to fit a new starter and plate..... and good as new.... |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 03:08:49 AM
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| Hmmm just cant see how or why the flexplate would stop in the one spot that is all. Just seeing if there was a reason behind it or what the go was tis all. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 7:58:28 PM
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it would be great if i could remember , i realize that to stop the plate at only two points
sounds crazy !!! and may not be correct ....
what convinced me was the fact that the starter always slipped and grind when i did not turn the motor over a few inches.
lemusa if you try it and there is no grinding , screeching , slipping . then your flex plate may be worn ,
on some teeth....at some point....... and starter would be ok.... |
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lemusa
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193 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 1:11:51 PM
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hey thanks for the replies, its definitely not a flexplate issue. Both starter motors have the bearing at the end hangin out of them so my theory now is that the starter motor isnt disengaging propery and sitting there spinning with the engine? obviously the starter motor bearings wouldnt last long doing a hundred million revs
So problem must be electrical...but where would i start? Id rather not trial and error it with a new starter each time
I wouldnt worry about it because im doing a manual conversion and an engine with lower ks at easter but if it is electrical the problem most likely wont go away with a new engine. grr
So where would i start with the starter wiring? its only 2 wires so what could cause it to stay engaged after the cars started? its not tryin to turn the engine over or anything while cars running but im assumin the gear is still engaged |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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crazybiker
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141 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 2:07:39 PM
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The flex plate won't ONLY stop at 2 points.
That's a load of rubbish. Did that mechanic do any work on your car? I'd be going over everything he worked on now, just to be sure.
At absolute MINIMUM, there's 6 points. The motor will GENERALLY stop at a compression stroke. Which cylinder, you don't know. So having 6 cylinders, that leaves 6 points, but then you may also get the back stroking a bit.
Sorry, but there is NO WAY there are only 2 points.
Best option would be to replace the starter motor, and get a new flywheel put on at the same time. That sure make the the problems fixed. |
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lemusa
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193 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 2:41:50 PM
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| and if its electical? |
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crazybiker
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141 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 5:30:01 PM
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| Would electrical problems cause "Crunch"? |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 6:58:03 PM
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Thanks crazybiker I'm glad that's cleared up...!!! Yeah he did my whole family's cars for years.
moved now (so no problems so far).... it did seem unbelivable at the time...
lemusa could be somthing to do with the starters overrunning clutch , of the drive pinion , getting stuck...
are both auto and manual s1 v6 starters the same... from memory ones a delco and the other a bosch ???
and can they be interchanged ... ??? lemusa at least a man is more fun... |
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lemusa
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193 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 08:20:23 AM
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| yeah cant wait to get it in, i think il just leave it until ive swapped engine and gearbox and hope it goes away |
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lemusa
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193 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 10:24:49 AM
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| also im pretty sure that manual and auto starters are different and not interchangeable |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 12:04:10 PM
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Thanks mate wasn't sure !!! sounds like an awesome idea ... those manual v6's fly and leave..
hot black lines at short notice... lol... |
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lemusa
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193 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 1:00:15 PM
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I picked up a donor car as well, berlina which had been converted to v8 but the engine has gone but i have the v8 lsd and from what ive read the gears are the same as the v6? if this is true then im a happy man!
Can someone confirm? |
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dryVN
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228 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 3:54:14 PM
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Good score man , plenty of parts ....
yeah same ratio 3.08:1
does any one know if the v8 diff is a 4 pinion ???? |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 22 Mar 2009 : 4:16:35 PM
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yeah paid 400 bucks nz for it has the diff, leather interior, lowered shocks and springs, some sort of body kit and 3 inch exhaust. pretty stoked really
so my driveshaft should fit straight up? if it does then i can just drop the back out of the donor and into mine |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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dryVN
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228 Posts
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Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 08:58:03 AM
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Nice to talk to someone from The Land of The Long White Cloud....
The V8's are racing there soon m8 are ya going ?
The whole drive line from the donor car is a straight , bolt in proposition....
The only thing im unclear of is the tailshaft auto to manual ..... |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 09:23:32 AM
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Auto to manual is a different length tailshaft and Auto and manual starters are different.
Have a look at your start relay and also your ignition switch and make sure that they are not sticking.
If you have a multimeter(if you dont go and pick one up. the cheapies are just as accurate) remove the violet wire from the starter motor.
Now using your multimeter between this wire and earth turn the key as though you are starting it (it will not turn over with the violet wire off).
Now you should get 12 volts while you have the key in the start position. Let go of the key (like you would when the car starts up) and check this wire again. There should be 0 volts there.
If there is still 12 volts your relay is faulty or your ignition. Try swapping your relay with another one of the same rating ( I believe that all the relays in the fuse box are the same but just check) and perform the test again.
If you still have a problem the only thing left should be a faulty ignition switch.
See how you go with that and let me know i can take you through a few more tests if need be.
Good luck buddy !! |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 23 Mar 2009 : 5:48:11 PM
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thanks vnsvle il get onto it tomorrow, dad bought me a flash as multimeter at christmas so now i can put it to use!
should i remove the violet wire from the fuse box? i assume itd be there???
and ive got the manual driveshaft, two actually, as well as two manual starters. thats awesome that its all bolt up. means i can just swap out everything.
dryvn i might get to the v8's but not sure, i have family up there so accomodation is sorted but works flat out so probaly wont get away...always next year though! and hopefully by then the holdens will be up front a bit more |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 24 Mar 2009 : 3:26:39 PM
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Hey so i checked it out, all seems normal. i get like 20 milli volt when its off but im pretty sure that wont matter lol
One thing i did notice when tryin to start it again once i had the plug back in was that the starter is still actually turning the engine over...very very slowly and something is making a horrible crackings streching noise. I know that the engine is fine so its not seized or anything but what could cause it? would it be a broken flexplate? |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 01:16:04 AM
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So you are saying that the starter motor is still trying to turn the engine over when you are not turning the key??
See if the problem lies in the starter motor itself. Looking at the back of the solenoid, you will see two big post electrical connectors. What you want to do here (TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL -- PARKING BRAKE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is grab a big screwdriver or a pair of insulated pliers. Touch only the plastic or rubber handle. You want to take this tool and short across the two big post terminals. Be prepared for some sparks, but hold the tool up there until you make a good connection. What you are doing here is connecting the battery directly to the starter motor, WITHOUT engaging the solenoid. So what should happen is that the starter motor will spin but will not crank the engine. It should sound like a regular electric motor, no gravelly or strange noises.
If it sounds alright and the starter motor is not trying to turn the engine over I would have a good look at the flexplate. I believe that there is an inspection plate you should be able to remove and get a good look at the flexplate.
Let us know how you go |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 9:05:16 PM
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Sorry i must of confused you, the starter seems fine, I can hear it spinning fine but something in there crunches as well which i think must be the flexplate moving around
Il get under it tomorrow then hopefully, id assume the inspection thing would be right underneath.
Starter ripping the donor car down today as well, front of the kit needs a little work. It has broken clips. Are they just standard parts or specific to each kit?
Cheers for the help so far, il post up what i find tomorrow night |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 7:01:48 PM
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Wel i still havent had a look at the flexplate but will tomorrow, got the suspension swapped over today though and discovered that the so called lsd isnt! someone might get a brick thru their window tonight!
Give me 2 weeks and il get some pics up for you |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 9:43:05 PM
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| Why do you say it isn't an lsd?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 10:16:50 PM
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Well as far as in knw if it is then i shouldnt be able to turn the hubs easily in different directions? it feels the same as my non lsd
how else would i know? |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 8:28:39 PM
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| If you jack the rear end up spin one of the wheels and the other one should go the same way as the one you are spinning is one way. On the rear cover there should be a tag and also unless the filler plug has been changed it will be a reddish brown color. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 5:02:46 PM
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alright did that, it all points to not being lsd which sucks but oh well
ive got the suspension swapped over now and have pretty much stripped everything out to get engine and gearbox out, comes out in the weekend
is there any way to upload pics in posts here? |
Just be thankful you got two legs to stand on and hands to grab sh*t with! |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 08:13:37 AM
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| Get yourself a photobucket account. Upload them to there first and then you can get them onto here |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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lemusa
Fully Licenced
193 Posts
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