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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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 Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 8:20:05 PM
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hey guys and girls. I was driving today and it was hot. i mean hot, like 38 in the shade. with my new job, there is a lot of short trips between worksites. anyways, i noticed when stopped at the lights behind another car especially, the temp guage starts climbing. normally it sits around the first thick line on the guage, but today it was getting up around the last thick white line before the red. then the lights would change and get some air flowing through the radiator it would come back down and hover around the first thick line again. im sure the fan is coming on so is it supposed to get that hot?
also the air con is cold but when stopped at the lights, it would start blowing hot air. when i started driving again it comes good. does it sound like the old girl has had enough or am i worried about nothing?
thanks in advance
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 8:30:56 PM
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sounds like you fan is not running. This would cause engine and a/c to heat up when stopped at lights. Check fuses and the fan plug first and let us know how you go
cheers
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What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 9:23:52 PM
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| just bridged out th relay and the fan runs and it runs the right way. i thought maybe i was missing a blade but by the looks of it the spacing is not equal on the fans unsure when motor is hot though, dont have time to drive. what controls the relay? i thought the fan was always on if the aircon was on, is that right? |
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VN91SX
Fully Licenced
344 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 9:36:53 PM
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| If the fan is working then it sounds like it may be the radiator. It may be clogged so maybe try to do a radiator flush to check that it is flowing ok. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 9:40:23 PM
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| i lfushed the rad only couple of weeks ago when i got the old girl running again and water comes out clean. also, was new radiator only like 2 years back. was thinking maybe water pump but that didnt fit in with the aircon getting hot too. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 11:16:02 PM
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Two things to consider; First of all, you can "hose out" a radiator but not remove the shale and rust particles from within. They're stubborn little buggers that often resist efforts to remove them, if the process doesn't involve some kind of assistance e.g. taking the tanks off the radiator and "rodding out" the cores. Empty your radiator and shine a torch down the radiator if yours is a Series 2 VN onwards. If it's a Series 1, undo the top radiator hose and look inside. You're looking for crap and rust particles in the cores.
Secondly, check to make sure your fan sensor is working. Unsure as to how to do this without replacing it with one that works, but it is supposed to turn the radiator fan on and off. Usually found at the back of the intake manifold, one with two wires leading to it.
If and only if these two things are ok, and it still overheats, is when you look deeper for things like stuck thermostats. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 11:18:46 PM
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| As for your aircon, check your compressor, and check for a gas leak in your system. At idle, an engaged compressor isn't pumping as hard. Also, you may have some trouble with the thermostat in your aircon system. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 12:25:58 AM
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Idle the car in the driveway and make sure that the fan is actually working as it is supposed to. Maybe go for a drive around the block to heat things up a little quicker. My guess is that the 2 problems are related and the only thing that connects the 2 problems is the fan.
How do you mean you bridged the relay?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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hsv_babe
Fully Licenced
269 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 11:10:13 AM
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| Another thing, when you 'flushed' your radiator, did you bleed the system of air? this can sometimes cause problems. If yours is a series II there is a little screw near the thermostat housing that bleeds it |
I'd gladly push my holden than drive a bloody ford! |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 7:00:25 PM
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its a series 2. i have replaced the thermostat, and i bled the system of air and its all good there. bridged the relay meaning shorted the switch to make the fan come on (sorry i am a sparky and use sparky terms that not everyone knows). but without knowing which sensor makes the relay come on i couldnt check that. its gonna be 43 here on monday and i have a pretty huge day of work, so i dont know how the old girl will cope. gotta go to 32 different houses before 3 pm!!!
how do you "rod out" your radiator, is it a big/backyard job or do you need to get it done professionally? |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 8:43:48 PM
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The sensor you're looking for has two wires. On the VN, one of those wires is orange, the other dark green. Find the sensor with these two hanging out the back of it, and you have your culprit. Not to be confused with the one beside it, with only one wire. This is your temperature sender, which goes to the gauge.
Unfortunately rodding out a radiator will have to be done by a professional. It involves taking the tanks off a radiator, and pushing a rod through each of the cores, to clear them of rust and other built up crap. While you're there, get them to do both a chemical and pressure flush, and your cooling system will be perfect. If you have any doubts at all about that radiator, have the system thorougly cleaned and replace it.
Another thing to look for, is the condition of the fins around the cores. Their sole purpose is to spread the heat out of the cores, so it can get sucked away by the fan. If they're crumbling away, the radiator will be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Once it's all clean, put a top quality inhibitor in it. Toyota do a particularly good one. Don't let the raspberry red colour fool you, this is the best corrosion inhibitor/coolant I've ever come across. It's not as cheap as something you'd find in Big W, but it's well worth having. Just follow the mixing instructions on the container, and you don't have to worry about changing it for at least 18 months. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 09:52:36 AM
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Which wire did you bridge?? Was it the switch wire to the relay??
To test the fan circuit connect a jumper between terminal A and B on the diagnostic link connector. Turn the ignition on if the fan runs the circuit is good(it should not run in your case). Have you tried swapping the relay?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
Edited by - VNSVLE on 09 Jan 2010 09:54:44 AM |
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hsv_babe
Fully Licenced
269 Posts
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Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 6:51:53 PM
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| As defined by our friend bribri bridging is commonly known to ppl who are not sparkys and by-passing. i had mine done to my car cos my fans werent coming on at all |
I'd gladly push my holden than drive a bloody ford! |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 6:59:36 PM
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I know what he means when he is talking about bridging what I am asking of him is exactly what wires were bridged. Knowing exactly what has been done will help with the diagnosis that is what I am trying to get at 
cheers |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 2:45:17 PM
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| sorry guys, dont mean to offend. i bridged the switch of the relay, so put positive straight to the fan, and the fan ran. i also swapped the relay with that of the horn which i know works havent driven her yet |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 3:12:35 PM
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| No offence taken buddy A quick test to see if it is all working is as I said before use a jumper between A and B terminal on the diagnostic connector if it runs all should be good. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
Edited by - VNSVLE on 10 Jan 2010 3:16:14 PM |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 8:05:10 PM
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A lot of people have been known to bypass the sensor system altogether. My brother's VX had his fan stop the other day, and apparently it's not just the sensor that does a dummy spit. Corrosion has been known to find its way into the relay box, mostly due to its close proximity to the radiator resevoir.
He says this was what stopped the fan from running on his car, corrosion in the fan circuit. The fan was fine, it was in the connectors around the relay. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 7:49:48 PM
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hey guys. well it hit around 46 today and i was driving short trips everywhere (said sorry to the old girl at the end of it). when i pulled in the drive i got out and had the air con OFF, and i could hear the fan running. but when i was driving it was getting up real high on temp guage like 1 line off the red. as soon as i started moving the temp slowly came down.
i was just about to bypass the sensor this arvo when it cooled down, but the fan was running when i got home so i dont know if i should or not. was just gonna use the power from the gas relay to turn on the fan relay aswell so when the ignition was on the fan was on too. is this something people have done? and should i still do it? as for bridging the aldl that will have to wait till the weekend when i have more time. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 4:38:32 PM
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If the fan is running, get the whole cooling system cleaned out, and I mean EVERYTHING. From the heater core to the raidiator, eveything that's a potential problem. Even check for leaks. You may find you're a bit light on for coolant.
An old bush way of temporarily fixing the cooling system is to cut the centre out of the thermostat. You leave the outer ring of the assembly in the housing, but cut the centre (the bit in the middle with the spring) out of the thermostat. This would help in the short term, but it's fair to say your real culprits are a clogged radiator, which is restricting coolant flow, and the fact that this fan may only be working intermittently. Next time the guage gets halfway on the gauge, stop, open the bonnet, and see if the fan is running. It should be running at that point on the gauge.
When an engine overheats, you will find it will use much more coolant than normal, and this will also add to the problem. Check to make sure it still has enough coolant as well, and of course, as HSV Babe said, bleed it out as you do so. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 8:13:56 PM
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| how much do these mega cleans usually cost. do i need to take the radiator out or give them the whole car and clean out the block aswell? |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 11:22:10 PM
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Depending on who does it. Rodding out a radiator is usually about $80-$120 or so, a proper flush costs about $10 in chemical cleaner, and takes about an hour and a half. That would be dependent on their labour charges, of course. The way it was done at the roadhouse I worked at, was with a chemical cleaner, and a special noozzle that fits into the radiator hose. It puts compressed air through the system, to help force the rust particles out, once loosened by the chemical cleaner. Then it's whatever it costs in coolant/inhibitor you choose to replace it with. Would recommend Toyota's own branded coolant, but of course it's whatever you can afford. Coolant/inhibitor serves two purposes; 1/ to raise the boiling point of the fluid within and 2/ to inhibit rust. You can tell when it's gone off (most are supposed to be changed every 12 months) by a change in colour, and often smell too. For example, coolant that is green new, looks like someone peed in the radiator when it goes off.
You'd be better off giving them the whole car. Just cleaning the radiator won't do anything about the rust and shale still swimming around in the block. If your toolbox is easy to move from your car, hire a vehicle for the day, keep the receipt and claim it as a tax dodge. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 4:26:46 PM
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| Just discovered a new, potentiasl culprit in this particular problem; because I can't afford to fix mine at the moment, I decided to invest in the stuff that's free; tech advice. Spoke to a mechanic at a Holden dealer today, and this one is a new one I didn't know about. Sometimes when a fan is on the way out, you can hook it up to a battery, and it runs fine. To know the difference, hook it up to an amp meter whilst connecting it to the battery. The fuse on the fan circuit on a VN is 25 amps. It is supposed to run at about 20 amps. It should start at around 22-24, then settle back to 20 very quickly. If it doesn't, you know you have a problem. To test the sensor, hang it over, but don't immerse it into, a pot of boiling water. The idea is to give it the heat of the required temp to set it off, but not damage it with water. The sensor doesn't appear to be immersed in the coolant, rather bolted into the intake manifold. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 8:56:17 PM
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| Coolant temp sensor is in the coolant flow immersing it in the water to test will not damage it. When you test it though test it in a mixture of 50/50 coolant water. If you need to know the values and temperatures required send me a message and I will send them to you. If there was a problem with the coolant temp sensor circuit you would get the check engine light up and would have codes 14 and 15. Check the voltage across the sensor with the ignition on it should be above 4 volts. If it is below 4 volts you either have a problem in the wiring or the ecu. If all checks out test the sensor with the external of the vehicle. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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bribri
P Plater
24 Posts
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Posted - 24 Jan 2010 : 4:26:51 PM
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| well, after many years service, and many break downs, the family have convinced me to retire the old girl. not before burning both my hands on the radiator overflow. somehow managed to get a blockage in the tube from radiator to overflow, and by undoing the overflow cap, i must have freed it. anyways, long story short, the boiling coolant got to my hands. family has now bought a 2003 ba wagon with factory dedicated gas. not that i am a ford fan, but it will do for now. thanks to everyone for their help. |
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