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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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 Posted - 30 Aug 2011 : 7:32:48 PM
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| To be honest mate I only understood half of that, I'm not to experienced with cars yet, so I will get Shane (VNGRPA) to come down & help me do it. Thanks for the guide but, I'm sure he will understand it better, fingers crossed that it just needs a good clean. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 30 Aug 2011 : 7:46:46 PM
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| When you fill the cooling system do you just fill it or follow the procedure in the manual?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 30 Aug 2011 : 7:48:38 PM
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| Just fill it, I haven't even thought about that, I will read through my repair manual now. I'll let you know if anything handy is in there, It's not my original manual so it many not have much of a description for the method. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 31 Aug 2011 : 8:01:15 PM
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The gregory's manual I have has a fairly specific proceedure to follow when filling the series 1 cooling system.
I would be following it to the t and see how that goes. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 08:31:02 AM
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| It's sitting at an engine specialist's place, but they guy seemed like a bit of an idiot. Straight away he said blown head gasket, but I don't think he under stands it could be something as little as an air bubble, so i'm just getting him to do a quote if it is something big, if not i'm gonna bring it home and bleed the system and see how it goes. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 10:48:12 AM
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He's a clown. S1s do occasionally blow head gaskets, but not in the same way as alloy heads. Alloy head engines, such as the Ecotec, when they get cooked, the heads warp. The gasket between the head and the block is no longer a firm seal, which is how coolant gets into the cylinders, and exhaust gas gets into the cooling system. With S1s being iron heads, the leak, if it actually does have one, is usually very slow.
That I'm aware of, the series one engines don't have any bleed valves. I've refilled mine by filling the cooling system cold, then waiting for the thermostat to open. When the engine reaches operating temperature, it will bubble and even possibly "throw up" a little coolant. Wait for it to settle, and then refill. If it keeps blowing out air and remaining below the level needed, keep topping up until it stays at the level. Screw the cap back on, take it for a drive (preferably somewhere where you get up to 100km/h) and watch your temp. gauge.
I'd get a second opinion on what's going on with your cooling system. I've had people try and tell me the head gasket has blown on my HZ Kingswood (an all iron engine) when really it was just a coolant leak. The original Holden 6 cylinders would sooner burn a hole through the top of a piston before blowing a head gasket. |
Edited by - Mechknight73 on 01 Sep 2011 10:51:00 AM |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 11:39:58 AM
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| Ok thanks heaps mate, its been a few hours since I took it in, no word on it yet, so I gather that he realized it wasn't the head gasket and is trying to find the problem, i'll go pick it up soon and buy some more coolant, and bleed it when I get back. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 11:44:41 AM
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| Just got off the phone to the bloke, he said he ran all the tests and it all checked out good. He said he's gonna get one of his guys to talk to me when I get there, but I'm gonna take your advice because it sounds like you know a lot more than them, shane advised that too. Thanks mate. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 6:06:28 PM
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| Happy to help. The boofheads that changed my timing cover, I only let them have it because a. my VN couldn't make it any further than their workshop and b. I had neither the tools nor the downtime to spare. The intake manifold was unrelated to the overheating problem with mine, but it suddenly "springs a leak" at the back, making me suspicious. In hindsight, I wouldn't have trusted them to service a lawnmower. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 6:20:55 PM
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| Yea that happened with me two days ago, my fuses were fine, all my electronics were working, then when he gives me my car back he said all the fuses were stuffed so he charged me for new ones, i wasn't thinking at the time and didn't ask to see the old ones.. I tried bleeding it this arvo but didn't try it the proper way, only added a bit of coolant while it was idling a few times, massaged the hoses, still gets hot, but when i squeeze the hoses it almost sounds like waters just sloshing around in the radiator and it kind of sounds like its pushing out air into the overflow.. so idk what is happening!! :( None of the mechanics know either. |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 7:48:14 PM
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Check out the proceedure in the manual buddy and follow it is what I would recommend.
Also has the water pump been checked out??
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What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 10:12:48 PM
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| The repair manual I have only covers series 2 because they have a bleed screw. And no it hasn't, me and Shane think its dicky but we haven't taken it apart yet, (I'm still learning with cars) So I'm waiting till he can come down and help me do the thermostat and water pump, I'd rather learn from a mate than just paying someone to do it is all. |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 01:09:13 AM
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| I'll throw this in as two different radiators and overflow's. So many change's between S1 and S2 , one has a regular style cap on it , that make's it easy to bleed out the air pockets by topping up after a quick fang. some parts interchange while others don't. I'd check through the manual and check all the hoses and parts are right. Last thing to mention , is the heater hooked up and tap working properly. You are one patient bloke as i would have gone nut's after all this. |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 01:32:34 AM
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| Hey just an idea from the photos on page 1 , i think you have a S2 radiator S1 overflow and S1.5 cap. With that setup there should be no pressure relief from the overflow cap itself and it's a rounder fully sealed cap. with the air bled out and water line sitting about half way full in overflow tank. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 09:54:28 AM
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That's a partial explanation. The radiator cap would be rated at the same pressure as the S1 header tank cap, so no real change there, except to have an "inspection point" to see if the cores are clogged with rust and shale. There is a valve in to top of the S1 header cap, which would have some pressure relief on it, otherwise the header tank would split in two if it got really hot.
With my heater on, and sometimes no, when I'm driving along there's a sound coming from the cooling system on my VN that is a little like someone tooting on a bong. when it does this the temp is normal, so it doesn't worry me. I'd say change your thermostat, and then grab the pulley bolted to your water pump. If you can rock it from side to side, the bearing in it is stuffed, and it has to be replaced for two reasons
1. sooner or later, the water pump will disintegrate
2. without the belt on the pulley, it upsets the crank angle sensor. This is a small sensor behind the bottom pulley that tells the computer when to fire the spark plugs. if it is playing up, you may not even be able to start the engine. If you do, you will get short stints before it stalls again. |
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dryVN
Fully Licenced
228 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 3:05:12 PM
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Yeah my explanations are never good , must be caused by as mentioned water noise lol..,
never noticed water coming through the overflow cap in a S1 unless its going blow. Has nowhere for the coolant to be collected at that point.
S2 needs a pressure relief cap at the overflow as it has no radiator cap and an extra pressure return line to the radiator.
This VN setup would require a S1 Radiator and Cap. The pressure would vent through that before it goes to the Overflow. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 3:06:36 PM
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| I'm gonna try replacing the water pump and thermostat, even if it doesnt work i wanted to get it out of the way |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 7:01:37 PM
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@dryVN - The first picture does show a series 2 radiator on a series 1 car. Also the cap he has is correct for series one. Because the reservoir is up so high and is reasonably big the cap will just let excessive pressure out and then back in when cooling.
With the series 2 the same principle is applied only the cap is lower and will push coolant into the overflow and then suck it back into the system when cooling if it is funtioning correctly that is.
@Jamie Bowe - Proceedure as per manual(keep in mind this is when drained)
- Disconnect the water pump bypass hose from the front of the inlet manifold and the overflow hose from the radiator.
- Loosen the clamp retaining the thermostat cover outlet hose to the pipe at the rear of the engine and insert a blunt nose
screwdriver between the hose and pipe using care not to damage the hose
- Slowly fill the surge tank with the specified coolant until the coolant begins to flow from the bypass and radiator overflow
hose connections. Connect the hoses securely.
- Continue filling the surge tank until coolant flows from the hose where the screwdriver is installed. Remove the screwdriver
and tighten the clamp securely.
- Fill the surge tank with the specified coolant as previously described. Start and run the engine for 20 minutes to purge any
air that may be trapped in the cylinder heads. Check the coolant level. |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 2:29:22 PM
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So I did your method VNSVLE, I left it sitting in idle for 5 mins (with the fan on) and it was really cold, so I thought to myself *yes it works!* Then I took it for a drive around the block for 5 minutes, then bam, my temp gauge crept right up to just under half way. I got home and opened my hood and all of it was really hot! I took off the hose from the overflow bottle from the radiator and the coolant had been going through there, so i know that the water is going through the system, something is making it hot!
I think i'm going to take it to a radiator place next week and see if they can figure out the problem, if not, i might just buy a new engine and gearbox and convert it to manual, I can't stand this problem any more.
If you have any more ideas please let me know, cheers..
Oh and when your cars running does your overflow bottle/radiator hoses always get real hot?
-Jamie |
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VNSVLE
Forum Moderator
1316 Posts
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Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 10:09:38 PM
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| What is the hottest it gets on the guage?? |
What's the difference between understeer and oversteer?
Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Oversteer is when the passenger is scared. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 07:12:51 AM
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| Just around half way, it doesn't seem like the motor gets too hot.. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 11:11:38 PM
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| Took it to the radiator place today, they said there was a loose hose (must of been since i last bleeded it) so he thought it was the problem, i drove it home, still had the same problem. so i'm going back there tomorrow, i'm so sick of this happening! i've been to 4 places now |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 12:38:02 PM
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| If your radiator is definitely clean, all the hoses are ok, the heater core has no problems, and the thermostat is good, there is only one other bug likely to be affecting it. If you're standing still, the temp steadily rises, correct? Does this change if you are moving? If it does, it means your engine fan isn't working. Three things to check: 1. test engine fan independently from the wiring harness. 2. check that the relays are in their correct position. There is a socket in the relay box under the bonnet marked "LP CHECK." if this does not have a metal relay in it, but one of the plastic relays surrounding it, your engine fan will not work. 3. if all of the above is ok, replace your fan sensor |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 2:59:28 PM
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I have it on a kill switch so its always running, hasn't made much of a difference. So I'm thinking its either the radiator or the water pump and i'm going to get the cooling place to do a reverse flush
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VNGRPA
Fully Licenced
426 Posts
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Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 4:21:43 PM
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mate if it was my car i would
1-take off the inlet manifold and check to see if the coolant ports are blocked (running water through the motor would cause corrosion buildup) good time to give it clean while its off the motor
2-replace the water pump and thermostat (as they have corrosion around them) remember to use a good sealant when putting the water pump back on
3-get the radiator checked or just buy a new one
I'm shore you told me you had the heater core checked and its all good there's no leaks or anything, you have replaced your overflow bottle as your last one was cracked did it come with a new cap ?
also mate keeping in mind your car was built between 1988-1991 and all the parts are the ones that Holden put on 20odd years ago so it might not be a bad idea to buy new ones as we all know everything ages in time and running water instead of coolant will only speed up the process
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 6:08:36 PM
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| Heater core got blocked up because 'Apparently' it had a leak. Which I don't think it did at all. But yea I'm gonna take off the inlet manifold and take a look, and i'll let the mechanic change the pump & thermostat and check the radiator, I've had enough of my car lol. |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 21 Nov 2011 : 4:53:38 PM
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FINALLY FIXED!
The overflow cap had the wrong pressure rating (I tried 2 different ones so I thought it wasn't the problem)
But so far the pressure has been a lot more higher so I've had no problems.
Thanks for your help guys
-Jamie |
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kingbucktoo
P Plater
54 Posts
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Posted - 21 Nov 2011 : 8:25:03 PM
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| Jamie What was the rating on the first pressure cap that caused all your trouble?? is it readable?? |
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Jamie Bowe
Fully Licenced
156 Posts
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Posted - 21 Nov 2011 : 8:36:00 PM
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| At the bottom of my cap it said 3? I'm not sure if that is the rating though. |
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Mechknight73
National Driver
1001 Posts
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Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 1:56:33 PM
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| Tomorrow, I will hopefully get my VN back. What started as a manifold repair has snowballed. The mechanic noted that the core plugs at the back of the engine are weeping, and that to get to them requires unbolting the exhaust manifolds and starter motor. I've told him to replace all the core plugs back there while he's got access to it. With the exception of the heater core and the hoses, I will have replaced approximately 80% of the cooling system. If it still overheats after this round, I'll be headbutting the nearest wall |
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Topic |
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VN Going through lots of water?
